This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made in the Senate Hall or new Consensus Track pages rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record.
The result of the debate was no consensus here, but see Forum:CT:"the" ship names. —Silly Dan (talk) 21:02, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
The ship names section in the Manual of Style needs serious reworking, IMHO - this recent forum is just the start of it...
The key issue, I'd argue, is canonicity - Wookieepedia should follow the style(s) used in canon material.
Taking it section by section:
Names of specific spaceships should be:
- Capitalized
- Italicized
- Used with the definite article
:e.g.
- "The Thunderflare operated in the Core region."
- NOT "Thunderflare operated in the Core region."
This has been reversed, but I think the edit misses the point. Some ships, like the Millennium Falcon, are almost always referred to with the definite article, which is why insisting on no definite article was silly. But others, for instance, Dodonna, generally aren't, and we should respect that, too.
Personally (McEwok) I'd say that it doesn't matter whether we use the "the" or not, except that there should be a preference for canon precedent.
*Referred to by neutral pronouns (it, its)
This has been changed in the latest edit from:
*Preceded by the appropriate Ship prefix. If the prefix is unknown, do not create one.
- Referred to by neutral pronouns (it, its)
- Referred to by feminine pronouns (she, her)
The ship prefix thing was, I assume, taken straight from some more general manual of style, since the link is to real-world examples. I agree that there are very few examples of canon ship-prefixes in SW, and they certainly shouldn't be obligatory—in fact, we should perhaps specifically exclude them... but, that said, is HIMS definately fanon? And what do we make of "Galactic Alliance Space Vessel Dodonna" in Legacy of the Force: Betrayal—that seems to imply a prefix "GASV"...
On the question of what gender of pronouns to use, I think it's wrong to exclude feminine pronouns, and there are also quirks where I'd argue canon precedent should take priority: for instance, in editing the article on Star Home, I normalized so I referred to the ship throughout with masculine pronouns, following Hapan custom. The same would be true, one imagines, of Rock Dragon.
Class names are italicized only when a spaceship in the class bears the same name. The definite article may be used, but it is not required.
- When a ship’s class is a modifier, use a hyphen:
- "Quasar Fire-class Bulk Cruiser"
- When it is a noun, do not use a hyphen:
- "Ships of the Victory class were often overlooked"
- e.g.
- An Executor-class Star dreadnaught
Do not italicize a class name when:
- Using the class name and type, but without "-class"
- "Venator Star Destroyer"
- It is being used alone as a noun
- "Most models of the Broadside were lightly armored and ran with a small crew.'
Most of this seems okay, except for saying that class-names are italicized only when there's a "name ship". This isn't true in real life ("Town-class") or in Star Wars ("Super-class")... and as we'll see, there's a further question when it comes to starfighter names:
Starfighter, missile, and other craft types where a specific spaceship does not bear the class name should be
- Capitalized
- Un-italicized
- Preceded by the full technical designation in the first instance, and may be referred to solely by type name or common name in all succeeding instances.
- Referred to with neuter pronouns (it)
- e.g.
- The T-65 X-wing, or X-wing in all further instances
Again, this doesn't conform fully with canon. In Legacy of the Force: Betrayal, it's "Aleph"-class starfighter", but "Aleph", and I suspect it should similarly be "Preybird-class" and "Predator-class".
I'm not totally sure what to do about things like "X-wing class", but I'd be inclined to go with the way it's written in the G-canon script for ESB ("Lord Vader, ship approaching. X-wing class.") so no italics, no hyphen. The difference is that ships like the Aleph and Preybird are formally "N-class", whereas the X-wing is formally a T-65.
Anyone got anything else to add? If there's no major comments, I'll post a suggested revision.... --McEwok 00:58, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- About the X-wing class issue, I would argue that that spelling isn't G-canon because it's not intended to be an official title of the ship, just a spoken phrase that an Imperial officer uses to identify it. The characters in the movies don't always refer to every ship using their exact, canonical names. Regarding ship prefixes, even if there are indeed prefixes for ship names, I would argue against using them due to the fact that their usage is so rare in-universe as to be considered non-standard. I would also suggest that maybe we add a disclaimer at the bottom that this system is not universal and if canon precedent overrides it, the canonical title should be used instead of a title adhering to these guidelines. --Thetoastman 08:57, 24 June 2006 (UTC)