First Order

So I've had this pondering thought for awhile as I've seen new Star Wars material getting pushed out and I really can't help but feel like it's a huge negative for the villains.

So the question is in the title folks, have the villains been failed? What I mean by that inquiry is, can you see these villains as part of the narrative? Rather than just some at best speed bump?

I feel like this started with....of course the Sequel Trilogy, it seems like everything comes back to these movies. By TFA, the First Order itself was....fine, potential there and all that...but then I noticed a little questionable choices as it went on....Kylo throwing tantrums, Phasma just being...utterly wasted and thrown in a garbage compactor for laughs and then Kylo getting defeated. Not really the best look for the opening movie and this villain that they are trying to push for the Sequel Trilogy.

Then we get into TLJ and RoS movies and....the First Order, whatever potential they had as villains....is completely destroyed, they didn't even survive a full Trilogy before being absorbed into this Sith Eternal faction, which is a whole lotta nothing and then is promptly defeated by a huge citizen fleet.

The Knights of Ren....completely wasted, very unappealing, terrible and just...not interesting, they keep getting pushed despite all these facts.

Snoke....a wasted character, can't say much because he's so forgettable.

Hux, treated like a joke and wasted.

Kylo....he's not even a villain, let's be real, he's always going back and forth with no set character.

Ok but beyond the ST, it's even worse for the First Order....because Kylo is actively hampering the First Order and even he calls them weak and ineffective. Ok not really a good look for this faction...

But let's move on, let's go back in time and look at the Galactic Empire! Oh...they too are constantly treated as jokes, you have Grand Admiral Thrawn unable to deal with a meager Rebel cell, the Inquisitorius can't seem to keep members cause they either constantly die or turn away from the Empire. Yeah, Inquisitor Reva despite working for them for decades just...breaks down and cries, because....she couldn't save her friends or something and just stops being an Inquisitor.

I get that the Inquisitors were broken down and turned, but it's like a revolving door with them, they show up as villains sure....but then they die later or turn away, so you can't keep them long term...in one minute and out the next.

Thrawn is even worse when you actually sit down and analyze his character, especially in Live Action, moreso when you look at his prior iteration when written by Zahn. The guy on the broader scale, has been reduced to basically a side quest boss, when in reality he should have been the overarching antagonist of the Sequels, rather than the First Order....

SCAR Squadron....does anyone remember these guys? So called Special Forces and yet they've hardly been impressive, even worse they got their butts kicked by a bunch of pilots on the ground when they should have had every advantage.

The Loyal Imperials to their not dead-dead Emperor decide to torch all Loyalist worlds and basically hand the galaxy over to the fledging New Republic, in order to establish the First Order. So there can't really be any stories there at all.

Darth Maul is.....honestly folks I really don't get how he hasn't dipped in popularity at this point. Ever since he's been brought back, the only things that have happened for his character is him losing multiple times and then dying....again. Like he gets some stuff built up....and then he loses it, it's gonna happen again in this new series...he builds some stuff....and of course as we see in Rebels...he's going to lose it....and then he's going to get his butt kicked and then he dies.

I get his appearance and voice are cool, but those aren't the only things that make a good character or villain. The writing is everything here and Maul is just...spinning his wheels until he dies again.

Darth Vader keeps having the same story retold, that new book? Mask of Evil(Master of Evil?) or some such, was basically him trying to being back Padme for what...the 2nd time? 3rd time? Even though this story was already told in the comics, then he's also seeking power at least 3 different times in his 2020 series and he keeps getting his butt kicked by Palpatine.

With Palpatine, this just makes him look like an idiot. Your Apprentice has tried 3 separate times now to overthrow you, you beat him 3 different times and....keep him around...why? Dude, cut your loses and kill him, he's a liability to you if he keeps doing this. I know what you're gonna say

"Oooh but Palpatine is arrogant!"

Yeah see, that works maybe the first time....but after that, it's just making him look really stupid. We didn't need Vader and Sidious fighting at all, we already know what the relationship between them is, we didn't need constant fighting to know what the power difference is...we've known that since Return of the Jedi. Rise of Skywalker Palpatine....yeah, enough said about that....

But moving on...

The Grysk? What's the deal with these guys? Has anything remotely interesting happened with them? I haven't heard nothing, so I'm guessing not.

I won't touch upon the CIS or Grievous, because I'm sure by now people know what a complete clown show that faction and character has become with TCW and I'm sure Disney hasn't done a whole lot with them anyway.

I'm probably missing a villain or two, but that's not a good thing cause they just don't really stick out to me within the narrative.

But I dunno folks, what're your thoughts here? What's going on with the villains of Star Wars? I'm just having a hard time seeing any sort of substance, of narrative substance for them within Star Wars.

I like the look of the First Order Stormtrooper helmets more than the original Stormtroopers. They feel more clean and orderly. Not looking for a fight, but what are y'alls thoughts?

In thinking about characters SW who should get a “resurrection” from a previously confirmed death, Captain Phasma is at the top of my list. I think her character would greatly benefit from surviving her apparent death on the Supremacy and going on to serve a big role in whatever story takes shape after The Rise of Skywalker.

Captain Phasma #4 (2017) Cover by Paul Renaud

So, here’s my pitch.

Generally, I think there should be a presumption against undoing death in SW, but I also think there’s been worthwhile exceptions in the past, including Maul and Boba Fett. I’ve often thought of Maul and Phasma as the “Boba Fetts” of the prequels and sequels respectively—characters with an awesome design and interesting backstory in the expanded canon, but who feel Iike they were killed off prematurely in the films.

Despite what appeared to be conclusive deaths for Maul and Boba—getting bisected and getting eaten by a sarlacc—both characters were revealed to have survived without too much backlash in the end, at least from what I’ve seen, despite how incredible their survivals were. Given Phasma’s armor and resilience—a major theme in her novel and comic mini-series is that Phasma will do whatever it takes to survive—I think her surviving the fiery fall in The Last Jedi is not beyond the point of believability compared to Maul and Boba.

However, I think a major reason fans don’t seriously question a character like Maul’s survival is because his survival greatly benefitted his character. Once he was brought back in The Clone Wars, Maul went from a one-dimensional bad guy to a fully realized character with shifting and complex motivations and a compelling antagonist for Obi-Wan. When audiences see a character they wanted more of get brought back and given a satisfying story, how the character survives becomes less important.

So what’s the point of bringing Phasma back? What story would be satisfying for her return?

I think Phasma is a character who’s very well-suited to be used as a de facto warlord for the remnants of whatever is left of the First Order after The Rise of Skywalker.

First, Phasma has the status. She was part of the First Order’s “unofficial triumvirate” along with Kylo Ren and General Hux, training and leading the stormtrooper corps. She’s already feared and respected among the First Order, and would be a natural figure to take on leadership of its remnants.

Second, her strength alone would be something for disorganized First Order holdouts to rally behind. On her home planet of Parnassos, she was her the best fighter in her post-apocalyptic clan. Her warrior prowess and tenacity inspired others in her clan to follow her, even through strange and hostile environments. It’s the kind of strength that could inspire a defeated group of soldiers who want to give up to keep fighting.

Third, Phasma could be used to evolve the First Order. She’s obviously a much different character than Pellaeon or the Fels, who ensured the Empire had a permanent place in the galaxy decades after the Battle of Endor in Legends. But Phasma also isn’t like the Imperial zealots who designed the First Order.

She’s an outsider that was corrupted by her desire for the power and technology the First Order offered, but her primary focus is always to survive. I think bringing her back as leader of the First Order remnant offers an opportunity for her to reshape her’s and the First Order’s philosophy.

Now that Phasma and the First Order aren’t conquerors, they have to become something else. I’m not quite sure what that would look like—perhaps an organization that’s more insular and territorial, maybe content to settle on a Canon-version of Bastion—but it’s a great chance for Phasma to grow as a character. To Phasma, “survival” always meant fighting, conquering, and looking out for herself, and now she would have to accept that survival for her and the defeated First Order may mean peace and cooperation.

Basically, bringing back Phasma as warlord of a First Order remnant would not only be in-line with what we’ve seen so far of her, but would offer great opportunities for the larger story and her own character to growing into something more interesting than what what shown in the sequels.

Captain Phasma #4 Variant Cover (2017) by Elsa Charretier

What do you guys think? Should Phasma be brought back to play a role in a post-TROS story, or should she stay dead?

At the end of Episode IX of the Star Wars Saga, the Resistance triumphed over the First Order and the Final Order at the Battle of Exegol, restoring freedom to planets throughout the Galaxy. But this ending was far from the only possible outcome (from an in-universe standpoint). In this post, I will explore seven other possible endings, how they could have happened, and if they would have been good for the people of the Galaxy.

Ending One: Liberty Lives

• Summary: The 1000 generation Galactic Republic breezes through the Clone Wars, defeating the Separatist menace and maintaining its democratic founding ideals.

• How it could happen: The most obvious reason that this ending didn’t happen was Palpatine. However, he can’t be taken out of the equation before the Battle of Coruscant, for reasons I will explain on the next ending. Anyways, having Palpatine die in the office duel with Mace Windu should be sufficient. Or just keel over from a random heart attack while he is telling the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise.

• Would it be good for the people of the Galaxy?: It would avoid 24 years of an oppressive dictatorship, two more galactic wars, and several needlessly destroyed planets. I think it goes without saying that this ending would be an improvement over the one that actually happened. But how much of an improvement would it be? That mostly depends on whether or not the Republic manages to fix the problems that caused the Clone Wars to happen in the first place such as Senate corruption, corporate overreach, and lack of good leadership. Palpatine was the main cause of these issues, but they won’t just magically vanish with his death as some people believe they would.

Ending Two: Confederate Conquest

• Summary: Count Dooku’s Confederacy of Independent Systems decisively triumphs over the Galactic Republic, and establishes a New Galactic Order under the Separatist ideology. The Galaxy becomes dominated by corporate entities where Greed is Good and Credits are King.

• How it could happen: For this ending, the main reason it didn’t happen is once again Palpatine. His control over Dooku was the reason that the Separatists held back and intentionally lost several key battles throughout the Clone Wars. Most importantly among these battles was the Battle of Coruscant. Rescinding Palpatine’s control over Dooku (either through Palpatine dying or through Dooku choosing to betray him) at any point before the Battle of Coruscant should be sufficient to make this ending happen. The Droid Army had an enormous number of battle droids and combat vehicles just lying around unused throughout the war. If the Confederacy of Independent Systems had chosen to fight the war in earnest, it would have crushed the Republic like a bug. However, getting rid of Palpatine after Coruscant would not result in this. The death of Dooku and the loss of such a massive number of warships meant that their chance for a full victory had evaporated after the battle.

• Would it be good for the people of the Galaxy?: Unless you’re a billionaire capitalist, definitely not. A Separatist Galaxy would be a playground for the rich, where government positions could be literally purchased, and the vast, vast majority of people would barely have enough to survive. The natural environments of countless planets would get casually ravaged for the sake of profit, rendering them lifeless husks of rock.

Ending Three: A Republic Divided

• Summary: After many years of fighting, the Republic and the Separatists sign a peace treaty marking the end of the Clone Wars, and recognizing both the Republic and the Confederacy of Independent Systems as legitimate entities.

• How it could happen: War weariness of the population (both military and civilian) is an often overlooked factor in how long a war can last. With the scope and scale of the Clone Wars, I would estimate that it would take between four and eight years for the populations of both sides to reach the point where a peace treaty must be signed. For the war to last this long, both Palpatine and a large chunk of the Droid Army/Separatist Fleet would have to be removed before the Battle of Coruscant.

• Would it be good for the people of the Galaxy?: Possibly. It is unlikely that the Republic and the Separatists will immediately become allies after the end of the Clone Wars. A series of proxy wars will probably break out in the areas of space not directly controlled by either side, similar to the Cold War in real life. Hutt Space, the Unknown Regions and other areas could all become new, indirect battlegrounds for the two superstates. So in short, this ending would result in peace for many, but war for a few.

Ending Four: Long Live The Empire

• Summary: Managing to defeat the Rebel Alliance, the Galactic Empire stays strong and intact. After a few generations, nobody is left to remember the days before the regime took power, and the people of the Galaxy accept their place as servants of the Empire.

• How it could happen: There are a lot of ways that this could have occurred. Having the Rebels lose at the battles of Yavin or Endor are the most obvious. Having Han Solo not arrive (or just arrive too late) at Yavin would do it, as would having the Rebel strike team not finding or befriending the Ewoks at Endor.

• Would it be good for the people of the Galaxy?: No. If I even have to explain this one to you, you are what is called a Fascist.

Ending Five: The Legends Ending

• Summary: After the Galactic Civil War, the Rebel Alliance restores the Republic, but the Empire continues to exist as a legitimate state with its own territory. After teaming up to fight off many threats over the years, they reach a mutual understanding and agree to coexist peacefully, and the New Republic becomes the Galactic Alliance while the Imperial Remnant State becomes the Fel Empire.

• How it could happen: It did happen (in Legends).

• Would it be good for the people of the Galaxy?: While freedom for everyday people becomes more widespread in both the Galactic Alliance and the Fel Empire, it comes at the cost of many more deadly conflicts such as the Yuuzhan Vong Invasion, the Second Galactic Civil War, and the whole debacle with Abeloth. So in the short term no, but in the long term yes. And of course there is the slight complication of the rise of Darth Krayt’s Empire in the far future.

Ending Six: Empire Eradicated

• Summary: Getting past its initial issues, the New Republic averts the rise of the First Order and the disenfranchisement of Outer Rim worlds. It remains the sole galactic power with undisputed hegemony.

• How it could happen: The biggest mistake that the New Republic made was trying to immediately turn into a completely civilian government. If it had taken more time to ensure that the Imperial threat had been dealt with, the First Order could have been hunted down and the Final Order could have been nipped at the bud before it had the chance to really get off the ground.

• Would it be good for the people of the Galaxy?: Prevention of the First Order-Resistance War would be a good thing obviously, but what exactly would the New Republic do with its uncontested rule? Probably not much. Sure, people would not be oppressed like they would under the Empire, but from what we have seen, the New Republic was pretty selective about helping out planets, and the standard of living would probably only go up marginally for the ordinary people. And with this version of the New Republic being a more militaristic regime, who’s to say that it wouldn’t take on some other aspects of the Empire it fought to destroy? I think that it could easily evolve into a society not unlike the one depicted in the novel Starship Troopers, a type of military democracy where voting is a privilege reserved for military personnel.

Ending Seven: Somehow, The Empire Returned

• Summary: Steamrolling over both the New Republic and the Resistance, the First Order goes on to create the Second Galactic Empire, with Palpatine emerging from his hiding place on Exegol to become Emperor once more.

• How it could happen: All that would really be necessary for this ending is for the Resistance to lose the Battle of Starkiller Base and get wiped on along with D’Qar.

• Would it be good for the people of the Galaxy?: This outcome would basically just be Empire winning at Yavin/Endor but worse. The only real difference is that it happens thirty years later in the timeline, and would involve yet another destructive war occurring.

Anyways, those were my thoughts on how things could have gone differently for the Star Wars Galaxy. All of the scenarios I covered here were relatively tame in comparison to some of the crazier possible endings (like an Imperial Civil War or the Jedi taking over and forming a theocracy), so if people want to see me talk about my thoughts other, more out-there ways things could have gone, just say so!

I want to hear your thoughts about this. I was wondering, after Rise of Skywalker, what would happen to the Stromtroopers in the First Order?

We know that the First Order and the Sith Eternal are analogous to eachother. They were intended to merge into a larger Sith Empire and take control of the galaxy. The only problem though is with whom at the helm? In The Rise of Skywalker we see two somewhat contradictory statements. When Kylo Ren finds Exegol and the Phantom Emperor it is stated that if he kills the girl (Rey) then Sidious will reward him with the Fleet, The Army and the resources to finally conquer the Galaxy and rule as the new Galactic Emperor. However, when Rey later arrived at Exegol Sidious tells her he never wanted her dead but as a vessel for his unlimited power.

I wanted to ask if there was any canonical source that stated that Sidious' offer to Kylo Ren was actually sincere and that if he killed Rey he would have truly been allowed to become the next ruler of both factions. Of course, we also learn that Ren intended to betray Sidious anyway. Was it just simple manipulation? Then why did Sidious groom Ren from birth to become a warrior of the dark? If all went well however, who would be the ruler of the galaxy? Kylo Ren with Sidious as Master and Apprentice? Sidious through a vessel? I don't want the explanation about the writing quality or inconsitencies. This is looking at it strictly in universe. What do you think?

Even though Tamara Ryvora was originally a member of the First Order, did you consider her to be too adorable to even be evil? She doesn't have the face of a demon.