Yes he did deserve redemption. And I want a What If scenario where Anakin survives and regenerates to his Episode III body and goes for a three year rehab with Luke Skywalker by his side

So @Swatteam123 m'boy, I know you're a big EU Luke guy, so what do you think about Luke "redeeming" Anakin? Do you think Luke should have forgiven him? Do you think that Luke actually redeemed Vader and, if so, in what sense? Did Luke redeem Vader on a galactic level or just in terms of their relationship?

I'm just curious as to what you think! Now, I must say, much of what you cite for what post ROTJ Ani said I have never heard, since I have just stuck with how canon portrays Anakin, but, if Anakin never felt bad for any of what he did, ya, he's just a nut, that was never redeemed. What is returning to the light at that point to him? If he truly returned to the light, truly embraced it for the first time in his life, then you would just think that he would have felt horrible for what he had done.

Now that I think about it, it would be hard for him to be redeemed of all the things he did to the galaxy in just one moment. What? All of a sudden, none of that matters, just because he loves his son? I guess it kind of shows how lost he was, how detached he was from his actions. Again, I don't know if this makes any sense to you, Swat, but I look at Vader's actions and don't see someone trying to be evil, just doing what made him feel better. Now, naturally (and verily verily) this doesn't make his actions any less horrendous or evil, but it is a picture of someone lost in their emotions. He wasn't thinking about killing people, he was just concerned about letting his dark emotions out so that he didn't have to feel them as much, at least, that's how I believe Charles "the homie" Soule portrayed Vader in the 2017 Vader comics. Once more, the reason the light returned is when he realized that power was not the answer, anger, regret, suffering was not the answer to the hole inside of him, it was a purest love. It was a love that didn't want. That's kind of what I mean by Anakin being a selfish character. He is so in side of himself that he is only concerned about what he feels. I would hesitate to call Anakin's sacrifice for his son selfish, but, once more, it did make him feel better, just like killing people did. Of course, loving is better than hating, but, all the same, there is that element of selfishness to the act of it. I still think his love was selfless, but choosing to love, as an escape from hating (making himself feel better) is curious, yes indeed. This is to say, I'm not really sure if Anakin's redemption was really for the galaxy. Oh! and there's always the chosen one prophecy to throw in there as well. He brought balance to the force, but he wasn't trying to in the moment, right? He could have cared less, he was just trying to move the Palpster out the way. I guess I wouldn't say that Anakin was ever redeemed on an Alderaan level, if you get what I'm saying. He was self-redeemed, but that didn't make him any less guilty.

@Infantry31st I always love our discussion about Anakin’s character since the complexity of it is something we’re both very passionate about. That essay you wrote about Anakin is still one of the best Star Wars essays I’ve ever read. To answer your question about what I think of Luke redeeming, my answer is similar to what I covered in my first comment on this post. Anakin’s soul needed to be redeemed because him continuing to be alive and well as Darth Vader was a clear danger to the galaxy. Luke wasn’t about to kill his own dad regardless of the things he’s done, because he’s a big believer in redemption, which perfectly aligns with where his character was heading imo.

This passage from the I, Jedi EU novel of Luke revealing the circumstances surrounding Darth Vader’s final moments of life to his first batch of Jedi trainees is one of my go tos for Luke’s feelings on the matter years after his death “Please understand this: there was, inside Darth Vader, the core of the man he had once been. Though wrapped in layers of evil, this man still existed. In Vader’s final moments, he won out. He rejected the evil that had become his life. He rejected his master, the Emperor, and killed him.” For the purposes of maintaining Luke’s natural character progression, I do feel like Luke needed to forgive him. He looked up to his father especially after learning about his backstory as a famous Jedi Knight and I don’t see him holding the same animosity towards him that Leia did.

Now answering your questions about “In what sense did Luke redeem Vader?” I would say he was their relationship was redeemed much more so than the way the galaxy looked at Vader. Leia, a lot of Luke’s students, and most of the high ranking New Republic officials were still shaking in their boots at the mere mention of his name. Even 11 years after ROTJ much of the New Republic senate was weary of Luke rebuilding the Jedi Order because they didn’t want to risk another Darth Vader being born. Even Leia’s youngest son, Anakin Solo, was horrified by the possibility that he would end up like his grandfather largely because they shared the same first name and bloodline. As for whether or not Anakin felt bad after reading the Leia and Anakin post-ROTJ I mentioned before, I find it hard to believe he felt bad enough for his actions. He told Leia there’s no justifying his actions but he never actually came out and apologized to her. Call me nitpicky, but if I feel really bad about something I’ve done wrong to someone else then I’m gonna be giving a lengthy apology to whoever I wronged.

I definitely understand where you’re coming from and I agree that it is hard to say he’s “redeemed” for all his actions just because he saved his son from Palpatine. He killed Palpatine and by extension helped the alliance pull a victory at Endor but he openly admits that strengthening the alliance was not his intention. This, imo, once again highlights that he puts his loved ones above everyone and everything else. Even his most noble action in the OT was more on the self centered side. The galaxy at large be damned. Glad you brought up the Darth Vader (2017) comics as those are my top favorite Disney canon comics. Having read those multiple times, it feels like the beginning of the misery loves company mindset that you’ve alluded to. He has nothing left but his dark emotions to lean on and Palpy is encouraging that to a T. That said, even in these comics he does have moments where he’s actively trying to kill people and Palpatine off of all people has to be like “Uh…bro are you trying to kill everyone in the galaxy?!” I hope I answered all of your questions thoroughly. Thank you again for your thoughtful input 😊.

All people deserve redemption.

^Even Palpatine?

It might be more accurate to say that redemption isn't something to deserve but something anyone who has committed gross wrongs should aspire to.

I'm still finding the question of "deserving redemption" rather confusing. It seems to be being conflated with forgiveness in this discussion. To say that someone as purely evil as Palpatine does not deserve redemption suggests that it would be better off that they continue to be evil than for them to become good. An evil-doer redeeming their crimes does not mean that anyone should forgive or pardon them. As well, the impossibility of someone as evil as Palpatine to redeem themselves is a different matter from whether it would be better (for the galaxy) for someone so evil to try to redeem themselves.

Unless of course, we are trying to argue that there are certain people who are so evil that even if they did genuinely rehabilitate, they didn't deserve that rehabilitation at all and would have been better off staying evil and being punished for it. That is a valid argument to try to make even though the underlying sentiment seems more vindictive. It also brings into the ethical question of rehabilitative justice vs. retributive justice while highlighting how the middle road between the two, redemptive justice, can be construed as either.

Here, the discussion seems to be constantly interpreting redemption as being the same as rehabilitation. But in some societies, for example in imperial China, legal practice favoured redemptive justice, where the principle is that an offender had to "pay back", make-up for, or compensate for their crime in some way. This neither necessarily meant being punished for it to the extent that we think they deserved or that they be forgiven for what they've done because they've reformed and become a good person. But it nonetheless could end up looking a lot like retributive justice if the conviction is that the offender can only redeem themselves through death.

So, the concept of redemption is trickier than just rehabilitation or retribution, and to say Palpatine or Vader don't deserve redemption to me is kind of like saying they shouldn't make-up for their crimes if they could and if they were willing even though we know Palpatine would never have been willing to do so.

Jedi believe Noone is beneath redemption. Revan, ajunta pall, uliq qel droma were examples of jedi who created atrocities and were forgiven by a jedi. Anakin skywalker should be no exception. It was his son that forgave and redeemed him

@Swatteam123 Ya, man! It's always great chatting with you. It is certainly a complex thing that has a lot of different perspectives, lol! One of these days, I need to give post ROTJ Legends another try. I love how Luke described Anakin's return from I, Jedi. It kind of alludes to bondage, and how it took will and resolve to overcome the evil inside of him. Referring to Palps as his master is also calling back to the whole slavery aspect that plagued Anakin's life, being a slave to Watto, to his emotions, and to Palps in a way.

Unlike his father, Luke was a pretty selfless guy, and did something that I can't imagine many in 1983 expected. Even Obi-Wan and Yoda were advising Luke to kill Vader, and, I don't know if I'm interpreting this correctly, but I perceive that you would have done similarly. I mean I can't see myself telling Luke to give Vader a chance. That's what I find so amazing about Luke's character. He didn't do what we would have done, and some in the galaxy may have even thought that what Luke did was even wrong to some degree. Giving into your hate and all of that: no bueno, but no one would have thought any different of Luke if he just killed Vader. You're right, though, it would have been somewhat inconsistent if he just killed someone he had looked up to for so long, especially his dad. Though, I would think that Luke would have had a change of heart when Darth broke the news to him on Bespin. Another complex thing, I suppose.

Ya, you know if Darth Sidious is telling you to pipe down, you must really be going ham, lol!

Anyways, Swat, you're thebomb.com, my friend. I enjoyed getting to know a bit more about the homie Luke and also understand my favorite SW character a bit more with you! Truly a treat. Thanks, man! MTFBWYA!

You’re very welcome @Infantry31st. I kinda perceived that, at least from Obi Wan’s perspective, he would’ve preferred Vader dead than for Luke to risk trying to redeem someone who Obi Wan saw as more machine than man. If I were in Obi Wan’s shoes, after witnessing how far Anakin had fallen I can’t say I would be holding out hope for Anakin to be redeemed either. Definitely hit me up if you’re looking for EU recommendations. MTFBWY!

Papaltine deserving redemption is like saying the man downstairs needs one.😂