In episode 2 Attack of the Clones. How come the Jedi didn't know that there was an secret army of clones being developed?
And during the end of the movie Why didn't Obi-Wan tell the Jedi about Count Dooku and the secret Sith Lord
In episode 2 Attack of the Clones. How come the Jedi didn't know that there was an secret army of clones being developed?
And during the end of the movie Why didn't Obi-Wan tell the Jedi about Count Dooku and the secret Sith Lord
Yeah but who were the supposed other clients? And were they patrons of the Kaminoans prior, concurrently, or after the outbreak of the Clone Wars?
Additionally buddy you’re taking out the context surrounding the affair. Were the Jedi suspicious of Palpatine after the discovery of the Clone Army? Certainly but they were a little preoccupied with combating the Separatist Menace, that at the time (at least in the much better continuity of Legends) was Blitzing multiple sectors with their droid armies.
The Jedi did continuously conduct their own investigations of the Senate throughout the war and didn’t take any of it laying down, it’s just that they couldn’t be public about it out of fear of being called Seppies and considering that a sizable portion of the Order defected to the Confederates they rightly done so. It’s like the real world shady stuff that accompany war. I guarantee you many a U.S. citizen found it a little weird that the Roosevelt Administration looked the other way when it came to mob activity during WW2. Imagine that, the Government essentially placing thousands of its citizens under a mafia fiefdom to be freely abused and exploited by gangsters. This was called Operation Underworld and while officially not a thing at the time many Italian Americans certainly felt it as Commission thugs kneecapped them for being “suspected Fascists” when often times in reality they failed to pay a street tax, and the Government just let it happen. Another example of fishy Government activity in the lead up to war look no further than the Gulf of Tonkin incident the event, unless you’re unaware, that entered the U.S. into the Vietnam war. Thoughts of the war aside, the Gulf of Tonkin was a false flag and the Government has confirmed as much in recent years. The thing is however many at the time were suspicious of the incident but the contemporary Government wrote them off as “conspiracy theorists”, “beatniks”, or “hippies”.
The point is the first casualty of war is the truth. The political fog created by war and the innate corruption of government could result in a plethora of shady plots and schemes to go unnoticed even by members of government. The Jedi while certainly suspicious of Palpatine were preoccupied fighting a war and tiptoeing a tenuous political tightrope to give the secret investigations, they weren’t just investigating Palpatine, the time and the manpower they truly need. The Jedi Order at the time, the shell that it was, was making the best of an apocalyptic situation. They had to simultaneously concern themselves with the leading, deploying, and organizing the GAR and Republic Navy, handle their own affairs such as personnel treatment, the education and well being of Younglings, and inter Order politics and additionally preform a circuses routine for a blatantly Anti-Jedi media to garner good P.R. for not only the war effort but also the Order itself. In short the Order had their hands full and like real life bureaucracies had too many fingers in too many pies to question programs that, at the time, benefited them such as the Clone Army.
Corruption on top of corruption on top of corruption.
I know the context makes any Jedi move tricky but they really let that one get away from them well before the GAR was formed. Like @OmegaFramework said Palps was dancing round in front of them wafting his Sith shit. He may as well have had a Darth Bane poster in his office. But sure, meddling brings its own complications.
In terms of the Kaminoans, we don't know who they are trading with but it is only 10 years between erasing the archives and finding Kamino. That's living memory. But if we are going with legends, Kina Ha was on the Jedi Council and survived order 66. I feel like she may have heard of Kamino, being Kaminoan.
Nice responses by the way Diamond and Omega. Weird how you brought Gulf of Tonkin up, Diamond, I was reading about it the other day.
^Yeah the fact that Palpatine had an office full of dead giveaways definitely didn’t make the Jedi order look any less blind at the time. That being said, we gotta remember that they first learned of the existence of a second Sith Lord controlling the senate from Dooku, who has already proven his deceptive nature many times in AOTC alone. It’s not like the council were just going to take his word for it and even then they were still weary of the senate.
Their biggest downfall was the fact that didn’t dig deeply enough because meddling in the affairs of the senate to such a degree was not something the Jedi council was known for doing. It would’ve raised too many eyebrows with Palpatine and the other political leaders of the republic. Had the Jedi not been too preoccupied with the war they might’ve been able to uncover at least some amount of truth regarding Palpatine before it was too.
True. Although they wouldn't meddle when it comes to an ancient Sith threat, but will meddle when it comes to having a war.
Surely the Jedi should have positioned themselves as defenders for besieged planets. Not for invading Sep worlds like Umbarra.
I just feel like it is more plot convenience than anything to have Palps stay hidden under their noses. Sure, you can come up with reasons all day long but ultimately it was hell of a dropped ball on the part of the Jedi. I see it as unsophisticated writing along with the Rule of Two and the Chosen One prophecy.
^Who else was going to lead the war effort if not the Jedi? It’s not like the republic had a massive group of competent military generals on call.
Well not to be pedantic or anything but is it unsophisticated writing when the F.B.I. or C.I.A. fail to prevent atrocities perpetrated by folks whom were already on their watchlists? Dropping the ball, so long as it’s not overused mind you and is reasonable, is realistic.
Just to step aside from irl because I don't know how relevant it is to arguably the most powerful evil wizard the galaxy has known. That is a big miss.
Jedi are always talking about how they can feel the force in other beings. It doesn't make a deal of sense that they couldn't feel something. Then we have a whole bunch of clues that don't require force abilities to spot. E.g. keeping Sith artifacts in your office, taking control of the Senate, enacting emergency powers, having vast armies in his back pocket.
When the FBI or CIA let someone slip through, it usually doesn't cost the galaxy and they don't have special powers to help lift the rocks they are looking under.
Anyways, I actually accept your points by way of explanation but is definitely a redact fix for something that made no sense in the movies.
How about Kina Hal and the Kaminoans? What are your thoughts there?
@Swatteam123 Military generals should lead the soldiers. The Jedi were not military generals and had to learn on the job just like anyone else. The Jedi should have stipulated defence only, otherwise they have broken their code? Dunno on that, correct me if wrong.
^You are correct about the Jedi embracing war goes against their code but that still leads me back to my point of they didn’t have a large group of military leaders to take up the position of generals. All the republic had were senators who were either too greedy or too peaceful to qualify as generals or the Jedi who were peacekeepers but were also sufficiently trained to defend the republic. Disregarding the shadowy details of the clone wars, it was a war to preserve the prosperity and peace of the republic and the galaxy.
The Jedi didn’t do backflips at the thought of being generals but it’s not like they or the republic itself had any better options. The republic itself was at an era of peace (more or less) before the clone wars erupted and they certainly didn’t have an army on standby (or so they thought). In most of the republic’s eyes there was no need to have military officials ready for war especially since a lot of senators were trying to prevent war from happening in the first place.
Republic planets had their own military and therefore officers. Candidates would be drawn from there. Such as Yularen.
That's what the Seps did, Trench, Loathsom, Grievous. And we have Legends precedents, Bel Iblis, senator turned general.
I've heard the GR was pretty big too. There would be thousands of capable military leaders available.
Weren't the Kaminoans training officers too?
^A lot of those republic planets weren’t thrilled about the prospect of joining the war efforts. We saw several neutral planets and even republic planets that opted to put their own safety and well being before the republic. Add to that a lot of republic planets felt like this war was a representation of the republic’s falling system. Take the Mon Calamari and the Quarren for example. We got a whole arc centered on their conflicting views of the republic and even when that was settled we still didn’t see either of their respective armies fighting alongside the clone army. Imo it wasn’t a matter of these planets having military forces, it’s a matter of their willingness to join the war efforts. They probably thought “Why would we fight for a republic we no longer believe in or participate in a war that we didn’t ask for”. The republic didn’t have to convince an army literally breed for this war to participate in said war. Also I don’t recall the Kaminoians having trained war officials in any capacity.
What do you think?