@English-Lady21 I've never seen any characters in any of the movies do anything as crazy as Rey with the Force.

@Ctmeh But with a weapon that she's never used?

I think it’s kind of just a simple transitive property. In Star Wars, humans are a race equivalent to basically what Hitler perceived as perfect. But instead of humans sho were not categorized as Aryan, in Star Wars, the Galaxy is filled with hundreds of non-human races that Palpatine viewed as lesser beings, so all humans are favorable in Palpatine’s prejudice, superiority views. Ironically Palpatine sees all humans as equals(of course that’s an extreme generalization, but his favoritism, specifically within humans, not any other race, has never been viewed through the lens of race, gender, or sexuality) so to me there’s nothing canonically inaccurate with actors of color playing imperials because they’re still in line with Palpatine’s version of “galactic” racism. When it comes to “alien” imperials, I think we’re owed a bit of an explanation, kinda like we get with Thrawn. Although I think Palpatine view near-human races(Chiss, Mirialan, Pantoran, Zeltron, Zabrak, Arkanian, Rattataki) as still superior to other, less humanoid, alien races(Mon Calamari, Dugs, Toydarians, Geonoisians). Of course these are the same beliefs upheld by the Imperial Remnant as well.

Even the most extreme imperial speciesism only discriminated against Human females, and blacks could be seen within the even highest ranks of the Empire.

Grand Admiral Nial Declann

Palpatine actually used xenocentrism to strengthen his rule and he isn't a truly racist.

To be exact,Palpatine indeed treated everyone equal,because from his view, everyone is lesser to him and only deserve to be his tools and pawns.

@Ctmeh I don't dislike it though. I mean I don't much care for the sequels full stop, but I kind fo liked Finn. He's one of the high points, in fact.

I think he was interesting and had a lot of potential, but I also think if he got a raw deak it was because he was sidelined by Disney for being non-white. Rose was interesting too, its just a shame they killed her off in the space of one movie.

@Grimlord31 And? Have you ever done martial arts, or used a weapon? Just because a person is "winning intially" it doesn't gaurantee victory. I mean read about historical battles if you don't believe me.

People can get tired, exhausted, grow overcofident, underestimate thier enemy, or make a mistake. All kinds of things can happen which determine the outcome of a duel.

Uhhh, here we go again with the misogyny bs.

Look, if you really think people hate Rey because she’s got a vagina instead of penis, you don’t know the Star Wars fandom.

Some popular FEMALE Star Wars characters beloved by the fandom (or at least large parts of it:

• Ahsoka Tano

• Leia Organa

• Mara Jade Skywalker

• Fennec Shand

• Padmé Amidala

• Sabine Wren

• Hera Syndulla

• Omega

Tell me again how Star Wars fans are misogynists…

As far as the race thing—I’ve never heard people complain about POCs being Imperials, and that makes no sense why that’d be an issue anyway. The prejudicial tendencies that here on Earth are expressed through racism against other human ethnic groups, are in Star Wars’s realm, expressed through specieistic bias against non-humans; we’ve never really seen (to my knowledge) where humans have discriminated against other human ethnic groups.

And your Finn comments—I don’t even understand what you’re talking about. Finn was the most unique character of the sequel heroes, and he ended up becoming a simp/walking meme screaming RRREEEEYYYYYYYY every 5 seconds by the end of the trilogy. He wasn’t female Luke (Rey) or the new Han Solo (Poe).

As far as not having enough POCs in the beginning—it was the ‘70s dude, things were different back then. The emphasis on diversity (which imo isn’t a bad thing in and of itself) didn’t start till more recently. And then with the prequels, many of the characters had to be white because of their connection to the OT characters—Anakin couldn’t have been black since he was Luke’s dad, Obiwan couldn’t be Hispanic because the OT had established him as being white. And Lucas did add characters of color for new characters, to his credit; Windu (black), Jango (Pacific Islander), Jar Jar (black actor), etc.

The problem with the diversity representation in the sequel trilogy, at least for me, is it felt like the creators were more focused on trying to check off diversity boxes rather than create thoughtful characters. Kylo, the token white guy of the new cast, is basically a copy of Vader. Rey, strong female protagonist, is basically a female Luke for much of her arc. Poe is the Latino Han Solo, complete with the same jacket, the hotshot pilot who saves the day with his flying skills. Finn looked to have a more open character background and story, but as I explained earlier he ended up just being a joke.

Rogue One, by contrast, has a very diverse cast yet none of the characters feel like repeats of OT characters; though due to the nature of it being a single film compared to the usual three, they didn’t get a whole lot in the way of development.

***************

I feel that in a lot of these cases, people tend to throw around accusations of racism, misogyny, or subtle bias far too casually. It is quite ridiculous, and frankly childish that we have to resort to such accusations to try to deflect criticism of Star Wars characters. Just because a character has a darker skin tone, is a woman, or is LGBTQIA+, does not mean they are without flaw and does not mean fans cannot criticize them.

@Ajjviolin96 Thankyou for wrongly concluding that the complants about black actors as imperials reflected my own opinoins or beliefs. They don't. I don't care two cents what ethnicity the actors are, provided they are interesting, credible and/or developed characters. Moff Gideon, for example, is a very well written and compelling character and Mr Esposito did a good job of portraying him. He managed to be both credible and frightening as a villain, not silly or incompetent.

I am fully aware that the Empire's doctrine of "human centrism" did not discriminate against humans of different ethnic backgrounds, and that anyone- any human could rise through the ranks of the Imperial Military or become an inquistior. I am also well aware that notions such as "white supremacy" are absurd when applied to Star Wars and the Empire.

I wrote this piece to remark upon the irony and hypocrisy of people who harassed black and Asian actors like Boyega and Ahmed Best suddenly objecting to people of colour playing Imperials as some kind of evidence of Disney's "racism".

The insistence that Finn being "sidelined" was further evidence of this was always an abusurd argument, since neither Lando nor Mace Windu ever proved to be the protaganist's love interests in thier respective trilogies either.

I referred to the prequel Era Jedi to refute the notion that they represented some kind of ideal of model of tolerance and diversity which stood against Imperial "racism". An organization which selects its members on the basis of a talent which they are born with and makes them stand out from other beings cannot really be considered "diverse" and "inclusive" by definition.

I suggested that the corner of fandom who raise such objections are not acting in good faith, and may in fact be using such objections to present certain image of themselves which is not consistent with their behaviour nor beliefs. They want to *claim* Disney are evil racists for casting people of colour as bad guys, but are not averse to harassing and abusing actors themselves, whilst holding racist views themselves.

Finally, the argument that objections to Rey's character were based on the bad writing in the sequels don't entirely hold up to scutiny. The Original Triilogy was also not envisioned as a trilogy at first, and that created various plot holes and inconsistencies which were not entirely fixed, such as the identity of Luke Skywalker's father, and the second movie creating the necessity to bring Obi Wan Kenobi back when Alec Guinness expressly asked for his character to be killed off in the first movie.

Yes, the sequels were poorly written and poorly executed, but the hate for Rey was there for the outset. People's objections to her are not based on the bad execution of the movies, but on aspects of her character which she, in fact, has in common with others. People cry foul because she won a duel, or because she knows how to use a lightsaber or because she is "too perfect".

Obi Wan Kenobi has no flaws, is perfect, and has many unexplained skills, but gets away with these things because he is male and popular.

@Road Warrior-NCR Patriot

Any serious discussion of the role of female characters in SW and the reception thereof has been effectively stifled by the ban on this page of the term M*** S**, However, I am not accusing fandom of being "misogynists" for disliking Rey, I am accusing them of being inconsistnent and petty. They scream about Rey being a (banned term) using that to justify thier hatred, when thier male heroes display most of the characteristics of that type of character.

Popularity really has nothing to do with it. Like the fans who try to argue that X character cannot possibly be a (banned term) because they are popular, they fail to understand the meaning and implications of that term. Many popular characters in fiction are (banned term), both male and female. James Bond and Harry Potter are examples of popular male (banned term).

Mara Jade Skywalker is even more of a (banned term) than Rey. In writing terms, she's atrociously written, poorly developed, inconsistently characterized and utterly uncessecary to the storyline. SHe is a characature, a walking cliche. Not a person.

Ahsoka Tano has outlived her purpose as a character, and had her credibility destroyed by being raised from the dead no fewer than two times in canon, once using the trope of time travel. She only appears now as fan service, and does not serve the plot or overall narrative in any of the series in which she appears, and probably because she is a favourite of Dave Filoni.

Audiences can and should be able to criticize any character- including Obi Wan Kenobi.

It becomes absurd, however, when the basis of that criticism is that the character does bad things or has flaws. As the old saying goes "nobody likes perfect characters". Writers should be allowed to create flawed and imperfect characters, but also make us sympathize with and even like them. If the writers want to make a villain or a person of bad moral character the protaganist, that is their right as well.

It is the moralizing tendencies of fandom which are more troubling: the tendency to denounce anyone who liked "bad" characters and those who are deemed "immoral" as if that reflects badly on them.

Very well then: I’ll close this discussion by repeating something I wrote in my last reply, but apparently you didn’t get it right, dear @English-Lady21 :

“Your ideas are not that bad, but they’re so over the place that in seems paradoxical in many points. The impression you’re passing me is that you’re venting all of this as an (un)official statement to all the toxic part of the fanbase… which is not the case here. As others above said, who cares? But considering your historical on the Wook, it does not surprises me at all. Please, I gently exhort you to think and reflect carefully on all of this.”

There is nothing wrong on writing about the state of the fanbase and discussing its issues, but it becomes an annoyingly nuisance when a dissertation is paradoxical in so many levels that it becomes anguishing to read. Furthermore, and with all my honesty, you’re making yourself look like intellectually dishonest by approaching the theme of double standards morals in the fandom, when you:

• Addresses the issue of toxic fans to the community with a “pointing finger”, when in fact this community is centered on positivity and a healthy environment. Toxic users here end up being banned.

• You yourself already tried to twist part of Obi-Wan’s article by editing excerpts and adding things that, “in your personal interpretation”, are more accurate with Kenobi’s persona, because you think the editors of Wookieepedia have bias toward the character of Obi-Wan, and therefore are “Kenobists”, as you yourself judge them. All of this is no more than a weak strategy to mask your hate for Kenobi, which I believe are deeply rooted with your personal problems.

• The motivations of your first interactions on this community were with the purpose of solely refute and counterpoint @WriterBuddha ‘s hermeneutics for the sake of it, stirring up drama for nothing. Which it means it has been an issue that already crossed multiple platforms, and you came here only to keep it up.

With all of that in mind, you still come and throw a long-ass essay about the moral double standards from the toxic fans, which as I already cited, they’re a ridiculous minority, but they’re unfortunately a noisy one, which passes the wrong impression they’re many, when in fact they’re not. By bringing them up, you’re just giving attention to them, which is exactly what they want.

I sincerely and gently ask you that, whatever you’re have been going through, whatever is your cross or yoke, I really hope you can get over it and succeed, but please, avoid this forum to display your unorthodox catharses. I’m getting tired of locking your posts.

May the Force be with you, always.